@MattCWilson He’s like the Michael Phelps, but brought to earth.

obvs.

Merriam-Webster has definition 5 of “swim” as “to have a floating or reeling appearance or sensation”. So he could definitely have been having a reeling sensation while being beaten.

what’s your definition of the word “swimming”?

The idea of God being philosophically omnipotent isn't well supported by the Bible. Powerful, certainly. But the philosophy of omnipotence is mostly a later invention.

Jesus has clearer limits. For example, in the temptations Satan suggests that Jesus jump off a cliff and angels would rescue him. A hypothetical omnipotent Jesus wouldn't need angels.

@MartinRandall How does this answer the question? Does one need to be omnipotent to swim on land? I don't understand.

@Simon1551 in comments below many people are suggesting omnipotent, therefore yes, and I'm arguing against that.

But the temptations are good evidence that Jesus can't fly and this reasonably extends to other forms of super-human transport.

We also see more examples of God's creatures walking on water than swimming on land.

@MartinRandall Oh okay I didn't understand why would were saying that, with context it does make sense.

Jesus can do what god wants him to do; so can you. God can make you (or jesus) swim on land, so YES. However, suggesting it is somehow reasonable to presume a reciprocal relationship between walk/swim - water/land is disingenuous and might potentially be interpreted as mocking god; if you believe that jesus can walk on water, you should be on the lookout for lightning bolts. Betting NO on this market indicates that you do not mock god, and will no doubt be rewarded in the afterlife, presumably with heavenly $m.

🤣

Would straightforwardly follow from the notion that, within the relevant story, Jesus is the son of God and can work miracles at will, rather than having some limited set of 'superpowers' like a comic book character that just happen to include water-walking and fish-duplication.

@SofiaGonzalezQuintana Ok but there have to be some limits, right? Otherwise why not just do a privilege-escalation on literally everything?

@MattCWilson I don't know what you mean by "privilege escalation". Why would Jesus be lacking in any privileges?

@SGQ But what would swimming on land even mean? It's a nonsensical concept

@Mvem Given the analogy to walking on water, I imagine something like being able to sink into normal solid ground as though it were a liquid and moving through it by making swimming motions.

@SGQ It’s a term of art in computer security that refers to the ability to bootstrap yourself more and more power by leveraging a circumstance of the system that allows you to do more than what’s intended. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privilege_escalation

I’m making a really oblique joke that, if Jesus already has kernel-layer access then duh, he can do whatever the Christ he wants, QED.

@Mvem Fun fact - trying to swim in an avalanche is a good survival strat. So, I would imagine it’s like the beast-mode version of that, where you DGAF how much “solider” the substance you’re swimming through is. Because, like, you’re Jesus f’ing Christ.

@SGQ That would be swimming in land, not on it. Just as you don’t swim on water.

@Mvem So now we’re down to quibbling over prepositions instead of the proposition? Tsk tsk

Isn't he an all powerful god though? If there anything he's unable to do?

@Cutie Without digressing too hard in to Christian theology, my understanding is that Jesus is a mortal incarnation (“avatar”, if you will) of the actual Christian deity. As such, he doesn’t have omnipotence, but just general miracle-working abilities (raising the dead, healing the sick, turning water into wine, that sort of thing).

@MattCWilson No, In most theologies Jesus was fully God and fully man (Two full natures in one hypostases). The difference being drawn in the oriental orthodox tradition who believes in this dual hypostases and thus maybe you could liken it to an avatar. But Jesus when he was on Earth was just as omnipotent but acted in accordance with God's (his) plan. If he was just an incarnation or an avatar, the death on the cross would only have been performative and would not actually bring reconciliation.

@GanymedeAI Huh, that’s interesting. I think of it precisely oppositely.

I always read the crucifixion as a testament to Jesus’ love that he would agonizingly go through that himself, as a mortal just like any of the rest of us, and truly experience that suffering and endure it righteously.

Whereas, imo, if he secretly had omnipotence he could outwardly perform suffering but internally just will himself not to feel it or whatever, and that wouldn’t be a true example of divine love because of the performativeness.

But, like, I am not a Christian theologian and anyway this isn’t maybe the best place for a discourse, much as we both might enjoy it. Are you on the Discord?

@MattCWilson I guess I would flip that on its head. Is a sacrifice more of a sacrifice if the person has all of the ability to not take the sacrifice at any point, but choose not to or be forced to take up the sacrifice? I would say that it would show the abundance of God's love to have the power to deliver himself from any danger, but choose not to in order to save his creation.

I am not on the discord, but maybe I should hop on since this is an interesting discussion.

@GanymedeAI I mean, I hear where you’re coming from. A deity that intentionally turns off its omnipotence to have Something Bad happen to them would be quite a thing indeed.

That said, I also notice that as an observer and, uh, micropotent individual, I have no objective way to determine if my deity actually did this.

And yeah, power of faith and all. Right right.

But a regular guy, literally suffering and dying? And then only using the god powers later on to resurrect after three days? Dunno - imo, that’s a “more compelling narrative” as the kids would say.